Freeview BBC1 bit-rate now as bad as ITV

[Agamemnon]

On Saturday I recorded the stream of the Eurovision final on BBC1 and the
bit rate was only 3614kbps (file size 5.45GB for 3h 20m), whereas the two
semis on BBC3 were at over 4000kbps (3.85 GB for 2h 5m), and BBC1 is
supposed to be fixed bit-rate at 4500kbps. Well it clearly isn't unless the
bit rate was fixed as 3614kbps.

The picture quality was complete rubbish. The presenters and performers were
all blurred and the so was the scoreboard which even suffered from ringing
artefacts on the numbers and the colours from all the country's flags
flooded into the white background.

Eurovision Jade's Story which ran before it on the same channel was also at
3609kbps and Tonight's the Night was at 3877kbps. Have I Got News for You
the night before was 3289kbps, Ashes to Ashes last night was as 3058kbps,
whereas for comparison Primeval on ITV on Saturday was at 2888kbps.

The bitrate on BBC1 has gone completly down the toilet. Two weeks ago on 2
May Tonight's the Night was going out at 4641kbps but Robin Hood on the same
day went out at 3385kbps and on 18 April it even went out at 2898kbps
whereas Primeval on ITV went out at 2828kbps on the same day.

Is this the BBC's new way of forcing people to downgrade to DOG SHIT
infested BBC HD, by degrading the quality of SD so that the SD quality HD
(as other posters here have reported in other threads) looks better?

And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the pictures
were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem, it's the BBC's
transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than continental satellite
and almost all of that is sourced from VHS quality U-Matic. Is this what the
BBC wants to do?

Why have the BBC reduced the bandwidth of BBC1 from 4500kbps to barely over
3000kbps?

I hope the House of Commons freezes, or betters still reduces the BBC
licence fee because that's what they deserve after having done this.

[Kay Robinson]

On Wed, 20 May 2009 12:26:40 +0100, "Agamemnon"

Post by Agamemnon
On Saturday I recorded the stream of the Eurovision final on BBC1 and the
bit rate was only 3614kbps (file size 5.45GB for 3h 20m), whereas the two
semis on BBC3 were at over 4000kbps (3.85 GB for 2h 5m), and BBC1 is
supposed to be fixed bit-rate at 4500kbps. Well it clearly isn't unless the
bit rate was fixed as 3614kbps.
The picture quality was complete rubbish. The presenters and performers were
all blurred and the so was the scoreboard which even suffered from ringing
artefacts on the numbers and the colours from all the country's flags
flooded into the white background.
Eurovision Jade's Story which ran before it on the same channel was also at
3609kbps and Tonight's the Night was at 3877kbps. Have I Got News for You
the night before was 3289kbps, Ashes to Ashes last night was as 3058kbps,
whereas for comparison Primeval on ITV on Saturday was at 2888kbps.
The bitrate on BBC1 has gone completly down the toilet. Two weeks ago on 2
May Tonight's the Night was going out at 4641kbps but Robin Hood on the same
day went out at 3385kbps and on 18 April it even went out at 2898kbps
whereas Primeval on ITV went out at 2828kbps on the same day.
Is this the BBC's new way of forcing people to downgrade to DOG SHIT
infested BBC HD, by degrading the quality of SD so that the SD quality HD
(as other posters here have reported in other threads) looks better?
And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the pictures
were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem, it's the BBC's
transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than continental satellite
and almost all of that is sourced from VHS quality U-Matic. Is this what the
BBC wants to do?
Why have the BBC reduced the bandwidth of BBC1 from 4500kbps to barely over
3000kbps?
I hope the House of Commons freezes, or betters still reduces the BBC
licence fee because that's what they deserve after having done this.

I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

Kay

[Mikeapollo]

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

It's particularly bad around regional inserts - such as between 6pm-7pm,
10-10:45pm etc.

Possibly in build up to DSO where the beeb have to squash everything up onto
one mux (which will, of course, have a little more capacity post DSO with a
change in config!)

Just my tuppence worth :)

Cheers,
Mike

[Paul Ratcliffe]

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.
It's particularly bad around regional inserts - such as between 6pm-7pm,
10-10:45pm etc.
Possibly in build up to DSO where the beeb have to squash everything up onto
one mux (which will, of course, have a little more capacity post DSO with a
change in config!)

BBC1 is now being stat muxed in a lot of places. I'm not sure how far the
conversion to central coding and muxing has got, but it sounds like it
may have reached you.

[TW]

Post by Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.
It's particularly bad around regional inserts - such as between 6pm-7pm,
10-10:45pm etc.
Possibly in build up to DSO where the beeb have to squash everything up onto
one mux (which will, of course, have a little more capacity post DSO with a
change in config!)

BBC1 is now being stat muxed in a lot of places. I'm not sure how far the
conversion to central coding and muxing has got, but it sounds like it
may have reached you.

Its reached Ridge Hill, with a noticeable drop in quality around a month to
6 weeks ago.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Paul Ratcliffe
BBC1 is now being stat muxed in a lot of places. I'm not sure how far the
conversion to central coding and muxing has got, but it sounds like it
may have reached you.

My Topfield now indicates about 3.3 to 3.5 Mb/s on recordings made this week
in BBC South-land. It used to be 4.5 Mb/s. More significantly, despite what's
said about the coding being more intelligent etc, is in my subjective opinion,
rubbish. BBC 1 looks dreadful now.

BBC 2, BBC 3 and News 24 look as bad/good as they ever did, so are the Beeb
transmitting 1 Mb/s worth of null packets on Mux 1 as some sort of experiment,
or to 'harden' us up for a serious drop in quality, as part of Ofcom's mad
scheme to clear Mux B of SD services ?

[J G Miller]

so are the Beeb transmitting 1 Mb/s worth of null packets on Mux 1
as some sort of experiment, or to 'harden' us up for a serious drop
in quality, as part of Ofcom's mad scheme to clear Mux B of SD services ?

That sounds about right. As very few people will actually complain, they
will then claim that the justification of that report made by the media
consultants who stated that a drop in quality would be tolerated was
correct.

[tony sayer]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Paul Ratcliffe
BBC1 is now being stat muxed in a lot of places. I'm not sure how far the
conversion to central coding and muxing has got, but it sounds like it
may have reached you.

My Topfield now indicates about 3.3 to 3.5 Mb/s on recordings made this week
in BBC South-land. It used to be 4.5 Mb/s. More significantly, despite what's
said about the coding being more intelligent etc, is in my subjective opinion,
rubbish. BBC 1 looks dreadful now.
BBC 2, BBC 3 and News 24 look as bad/good as they ever did, so are the Beeb
transmitting 1 Mb/s worth of null packets on Mux 1 as some sort of experiment,
or to 'harden' us up for a serious drop in quality, as part of Ofcom's mad
scheme to clear Mux B of SD services ?

Ofcom mad?.. Now theres a thought;(..

[Kay Robinson]

On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window. I also
seem to get them when our estate gardners trim the hedges with their
petrol trimmers. I am, however, high up and have direct LOS to a
booster (I assume that's what they're called) mast atop a nearby hill.

Kay

[tim.....]

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!

I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.

I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no). I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.

(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)

tim

[Kay Robinson]

On Sat, 30 May 2009 14:36:45 +0100, "tim....."

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no). I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)
tim

From some tales I read here I consider myself lucky. Friends of mine
elsewhere can only get analogue with poor reception, they live in a
listed building in a conservation area, also rather hemmed in by
hills. I don't know what they'll do when the switch off for their area
happens.

Kay

[Norman Wells]

Post by Kay Robinson
From some tales I read here I consider myself lucky. Friends of mine
elsewhere can only get analogue with poor reception, they live in a
listed building in a conservation area, also rather hemmed in by
hills. I don't know what they'll do when the switch off for their area
happens.

They will put up a dish and get Sky or Freesat, just as everyone else does,
and they will do it without getting any prior approval, just as everyone
else does. If they genuinely can't get Freeview or a cable connection, I
doubt if there's a local authority in the country who would dare to take
action against them for fear of the backlash in the local and possible
national press on the lines of 'Local Council stops me watching TV' shock.

[tony sayer]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Kay Robinson
From some tales I read here I consider myself lucky. Friends of mine
elsewhere can only get analogue with poor reception, they live in a
listed building in a conservation area, also rather hemmed in by
hills. I don't know what they'll do when the switch off for their area
happens.

They will put up a dish and get Sky or Freesat, just as everyone else does,
and they will do it without getting any prior approval, just as everyone
else does. If they genuinely can't get Freeview or a cable connection, I
doubt if there's a local authority in the country who would dare to take
action against them for fear of the backlash in the local and possible
national press on the lines of 'Local Council stops me watching TV' shock.

Isn't this what MP's are for when there not snouting?.

Now the bl**dy peers are at it too;!...

[tony sayer]

Post by Kay Robinson
On Sat, 30 May 2009 14:36:45 +0100, "tim....."

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no). I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)
tim

From some tales I read here I consider myself lucky. Friends of mine
elsewhere can only get analogue with poor reception, they live in a
listed building in a conservation area, also rather hemmed in by
hills. I don't know what they'll do when the switch off for their area
happens.

Take a page from the French book of how to do things and protest!..

Trouble is in the UK a satellite dish is so aligned with the class
system thats why those in power don't like them ... totally different
from most any other country where its just a different shaped lump of
metal for receiving TV and radio on!..

Post by Kay Robinson
Kay

[tony sayer]

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no).

Well stand up for your rights and put your foot down and demand it
happen or protest about it!...

It is possible to get Freesat almost anywhere listed building or not and
there are satellite dishes on listed buildings they just need to be done
with care and a bit more thought than the one braincell Sky installer
can muster..

Theres a stonking great 1 metre dish on Ely Cathedral and its very
rarely seen but its there all the same now if that isn't listed then I
don't know what is.

Post by tim.....
I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)

Your landlord should sort this for you. Our tenants expect it;!..

Post by tim.....
tim

[tim.....]

Post by tony sayer

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no).

Well stand up for your rights and put your foot down and demand it
happen or protest about it!...
It is possible to get Freesat almost anywhere listed building or not and
there are satellite dishes on listed buildings they just need to be done
with care and a bit more thought than the one braincell Sky installer
can muster..
Theres a stonking great 1 metre dish on Ely Cathedral and its very
rarely seen but its there all the same now if that isn't listed then I
don't know what is.

Post by tim.....
I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)

Your landlord should sort this for you. Our tenants expect it;!..

I can't even get my landlord to fix a minor fault with my boiler

tim

[tony sayer]

Post by tim.....

Post by tony sayer

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no).

Well stand up for your rights and put your foot down and demand it
happen or protest about it!...
It is possible to get Freesat almost anywhere listed building or not and
there are satellite dishes on listed buildings they just need to be done
with care and a bit more thought than the one braincell Sky installer
can muster..
Theres a stonking great 1 metre dish on Ely Cathedral and its very
rarely seen but its there all the same now if that isn't listed then I
don't know what is.

Post by tim.....
I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)

Your landlord should sort this for you. Our tenants expect it;!..

I can't even get my landlord to fix a minor fault with my boiler
tim

Then find one who does its a very competitive market now rented
accommodation..

There are a lot of DIY landlords around, 'tho due to people not being
able to sell, well at the price they want or think they should get, so
there're renting out and usually aren't that good at it...

[tim.....]

Post by tony sayer

Post by tim.....

Post by tony sayer

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no).

Well stand up for your rights and put your foot down and demand it
happen or protest about it!...
It is possible to get Freesat almost anywhere listed building or not and
there are satellite dishes on listed buildings they just need to be done
with care and a bit more thought than the one braincell Sky installer
can muster..
Theres a stonking great 1 metre dish on Ely Cathedral and its very
rarely seen but its there all the same now if that isn't listed then I
don't know what is.

Post by tim.....
I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)

Your landlord should sort this for you. Our tenants expect it;!..

I can't even get my landlord to fix a minor fault with my boiler
tim

Then find one who does its a very competitive market now rented
accommodation..

And pay the circa 1500 it's going to cost me to move over a few trivial
items.

I don't think so

tim

[tony sayer]

Post by tim.....

Post by tony sayer

Post by tim.....

Post by tony sayer

Post by tim.....

Post by Kay Robinson
On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:36:06 +0100, "Mikeapollo"

Post by Mikeapollo

Post by Kay Robinson
I can't speak for the EV crap, haven't watched that since Abba won. As
to the others, I saw no problems from Winter Hill, must be a
transmitter problem where you are. And when it comes to the dogs**t,
complain to Ofcom not to the beeb, they never listen to viewers,
furthermore, once the analogue signal goes every channel will have
dogs so you'll have to put up with it or get a large group to pester
MPs etc.

I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since.

Aren't you lucky!
I have to switch to analogue (BBC) about twice a day when the digital signal
become unwatchable. And that's with a good receiver on my PVR, the receiver
on my TV is unwatchable for the whole day.
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no).

Well stand up for your rights and put your foot down and demand it
happen or protest about it!...
It is possible to get Freesat almost anywhere listed building or not and
there are satellite dishes on listed buildings they just need to be done
with care and a bit more thought than the one braincell Sky installer
can muster..
Theres a stonking great 1 metre dish on Ely Cathedral and its very
rarely seen but its there all the same now if that isn't listed then I
don't know what is.

Post by tim.....
I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.
(Fortunately I only rent so I can move if it gets worse)

Your landlord should sort this for you. Our tenants expect it;!..

I can't even get my landlord to fix a minor fault with my boiler
tim

Then find one who does its a very competitive market now rented
accommodation..

And pay the circa 1500 it's going to cost me to move over a few trivial
items.
I don't think so
tim

Up to you but if he won't fix the boiler then hold a rent strike that
usually sorts out a lot of problems like this!.

Sounds like he's one of those DIY landlords...

[Paul Ratcliffe]

Post by tim.....
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no). I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.

The bandwidth of a multiplex is fixed. How hard individual services are
squeezed into that multiplex has no effect on how easy or otherwise it is
to receive.

[tim.....]

Post by Paul Ratcliffe

Post by tim.....
I live in a listed building in a conservation area and hence have my aerial
in the loft (and a sat dish is a complete no-no). I think that reducing the
DTTV bandwidth down to the level where it can only be received by people
with perfect reception, on the grounds that others can get freeesat, is
completely unacceptable.

The bandwidth of a multiplex is fixed. How hard individual services are
squeezed into that multiplex has no effect on how easy or otherwise it is
to receive.

Funny then that, the ones with the lowest bit rates, are the ones that have
a quantity of errors that make them (sometimes) unwatchable

tim

[J G Miller]

The only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

When your local relay gets converted from FFT 2k to 8k mode, this interference
problem should at least be diminished, if not disappear altogether.

[Kay Robinson]

Post by J G Miller

The only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

When your local relay gets converted from FFT 2k to 8k mode, this interference
problem should at least be diminished, if not disappear altogether.

I recently watched a prog about someone who claimed to be able to
control electricity. What a gift to be able to switch off those
annoying people who park outside with engines revving or playing
'music' so loud my windows vibrate.

Kay

[Paul Ratcliffe]

Post by Kay Robinson

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

That is not an artefact. That is decoder failure caused by excessive
impulse interference.
If you cannot see any artefacts then you are blind. Or maybe just stupid.

[Kay Robinson]

On Sat, 30 May 2009 13:28:40 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Kay Robinson

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

That is not an artefact. That is decoder failure caused by excessive
impulse interference.
If you cannot see any artefacts then you are blind. Or maybe just stupid.

I'm niether blind nor stupid you ignorant little fairy. Just because
you have a piss-poor setup doesn't mean everyone else has your
inabilities.

Plonk....

[Steve Terry]

Post by Kay Robinson
On Sat, 30 May 2009 13:28:40 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe

On Sat, 30 May 2009 13:56:42 +0100, Kay Robinson

Post by Kay Robinson

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

That is not an artefact. That is decoder failure caused by excessive
impulse interference.
If you cannot see any artefacts then you are blind. Or maybe just stupid.

I'm niether blind nor stupid you ignorant little fairy. Just because
you have a piss-poor setup doesn't mean everyone else has your
inabilities.
Plonk....

Umm... I think he was saying that his set up IS so good that he can see
the missing pixels that you seem to be unable to

Post by Kay Robinson
It needs civilization, it needs second thoughts,
to realise that Napoleon and Ceasar and Alexander
are not really the highest types of humanity,
that war making is not a glory but a crime

I wouldn't put Napoleon in that category, if the royalists of Europe
and the fools that were brainwashed or just desperate to take the king's
shilling had surrendered, he wouldn't have had to fight them

Vive la République

Steve Terry

[You can't plonk me]

Post by Kay Robinson

Post by Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Kay Robinson
I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

That is not an artefact. That is decoder failure caused by excessive
impulse interference.
If you cannot see any artefacts then you are blind. Or maybe just stupid.

I'm niether blind nor stupid you ignorant little fairy. Just because
you have a piss-poor setup doesn't mean everyone else has your
inabilities.

Ah, definitely stupid. Apparently blind. Unable to comprehend.
Silly cow. Moo.

[tony sayer]

Post by Kay Robinson
On Sat, 30 May 2009 13:28:40 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Kay Robinson

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

That is not an artefact. That is decoder failure caused by excessive
impulse interference.
If you cannot see any artefacts then you are blind. Or maybe just stupid.

I'm niether blind nor stupid you ignorant little fairy. Just because
you have a piss-poor setup doesn't mean everyone else has your
inabilities.
Plonk....

Nah.. Paul works in broadcasting thats why...

Engineering that is not management AKA as bullshitting..

As does Mark Carver and you can see there're becoming rather critical of
broadcast standards .. or rather low ones;(....

[tony sayer]

Post by Paul Ratcliffe

Post by Kay Robinson

Post by Mikeapollo
I'm also on Winter Hill and can confirm BBC1 seems to have recently changed
it's bitrate. Recordings on the PVR are significantly smaller in size and
artefacts are now much more visually pronounced than previously.

I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window.

That is not an artefact. That is decoder failure caused by excessive
impulse interference.
If you cannot see any artefacts then you are blind. Or maybe just stupid.

Its digital .. its gotta be better .. isn't it;?...

[Andy Champ]

Post by Kay Robinson
I went digital four years ago, have never watched analogue since. The
only artefacts I ever see are on the occasions when local
stormtroopers rev up their motorbikes on passing my window. I also
seem to get them when our estate gardners trim the hedges with their
petrol trimmers. I am, however, high up and have direct LOS to a
booster (I assume that's what they're called) mast atop a nearby hill.

Wrong kind of artefacts.

An example: I was in the pub last night which had "Britain's got
talent" on. (luckily with the sound off!). I have an all-analogue
setup, so I paid attention to the picture quality - although it occurred
to me after a bit that I didn't know if it was DTV or Sky!

When the picture sat still suddenly the presenters had spots and
wrinkles. When they moved they all vanished - only to reappear a moment
after the picture went still again!

Samsung LCD which by all accounts is pretty good.

Andy

[tony sayer]

Post by Agamemnon
And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the pictures
were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem, it's the BBC's
transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than continental satellite

Continental satellite from most all state broadcasters is very good
indeed, especially radio;)...

Post by Agamemnon
and almost all of that is sourced from VHS quality U-Matic. Is this what the
BBC wants to do?
Why have the BBC reduced the bandwidth of BBC1 from 4500kbps to barely over
3000kbps?
I hope the House of Commons freezes, or betters still reduces the BBC
licence fee because that's what they deserve after having done this.

;)...

[Agamemnon]

Post by tony sayer

Post by Agamemnon
And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the pictures
were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem, it's the BBC's
transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than continental satellite

Continental satellite from most all state broadcasters is very good
indeed, especially radio;)...

You must be joking. It's complete rubbish. Look at the inserts of the
coverage of Jade from the Greek state broadcaster's Eurovision selection
final. The picture quality was as appalling both on the original broadcast
on satellite and on the footage they gave to the BBC which was worse than
U-Matic quality and looked like it had been compressed at 1000kbps.

Post by tony sayer

Post by Agamemnon
and almost all of that is sourced from VHS quality U-Matic. Is this what the
BBC wants to do?
Why have the BBC reduced the bandwidth of BBC1 from 4500kbps to barely over
3000kbps?
I hope the House of Commons freezes, or betters still reduces the BBC
licence fee because that's what they deserve after having done this.

;)...
--
Tony Sayer

[tony sayer]

Post by Agamemnon

Post by tony sayer

Post by Agamemnon
And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the pictures
were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem, it's the BBC's
transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than continental satellite

Continental satellite from most all state broadcasters is very good
indeed, especially radio;)...

You must be joking. It's complete rubbish. Look at the inserts of the
coverage of Jade from the Greek state broadcaster's Eurovision selection
final. The picture quality was as appalling both on the original broadcast
on satellite and on the footage they gave to the BBC which was worse than
U-Matic quality and looked like it had been compressed at 1000kbps.

Jeezzz ... the Eurotwaddle song farce isn't what I was referring to..

Thats crap whichever way you look .. or listen to it and should be put
out of its misery its the biggest most embarrassing broadcast joke
around;!...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by tony sayer
Continental satellite from most all state broadcasters is very good
indeed, especially radio;)...

You must be very selective in what you've looked at - most of the
'foreign' stuff I've looked at off satellite is appalling. Sound
especially. The 'arab' channels seem to think the norm is to wind
everything up until it distorts. And then some.

[tony sayer]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by tony sayer
Continental satellite from most all state broadcasters is very good
indeed, especially radio;)...

You must be very selective in what you've looked at - most of the
'foreign' stuff I've looked at off satellite is appalling. Sound
especially. The 'arab' channels seem to think the norm is to wind
everything up until it distorts. And then some.

I thought we were discussing "European" broadcasters David and state
ones such as France Musique and Bayern Klassik 4 etc..

Not some tinpot ones..

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by tony sayer

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
You must be very selective in what you've looked at - most of the
'foreign' stuff I've looked at off satellite is appalling. Sound
especially. The 'arab' channels seem to think the norm is to wind
everything up until it distorts. And then some.

I thought we were discussing "European" broadcasters David and state
ones such as France Musique and Bayern Klassik 4 etc..
Not some tinpot ones..

That's fine if you consider 'continental' as just being France and Germany.

[tony sayer]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by tony sayer

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
You must be very selective in what you've looked at - most of the
'foreign' stuff I've looked at off satellite is appalling. Sound
especially. The 'arab' channels seem to think the norm is to wind
everything up until it distorts. And then some.

I thought we were discussing "European" broadcasters David and state
ones such as France Musique and Bayern Klassik 4 etc..
Not some tinpot ones..

That's fine if you consider 'continental' as just being France and Germany.

Well didn't Jimmy Young always refer to France and Germany as sur le
continent;?..


You could almost consider that as EU broadcasters...

[Mike]

Post by Agamemnon
On Saturday I recorded the stream of the Eurovision final on BBC1 and the
bit rate was only 3614kbps (file size 5.45GB for 3h 20m), whereas the two
semis on BBC3 were at over 4000kbps (3.85 GB for 2h 5m), and BBC1 is
supposed to be fixed bit-rate at 4500kbps. Well it clearly isn't unless the
bit rate was fixed as 3614kbps.
The picture quality was complete rubbish. The presenters and performers were
all blurred and the so was the scoreboard which even suffered from ringing
artefacts on the numbers and the colours from all the country's flags
flooded into the white background.
Eurovision Jade's Story which ran before it on the same channel was also at
3609kbps and Tonight's the Night was at 3877kbps. Have I Got News for You
the night before was 3289kbps, Ashes to Ashes last night was as 3058kbps,
whereas for comparison Primeval on ITV on Saturday was at 2888kbps.
The bitrate on BBC1 has gone completly down the toilet. Two weeks ago on 2
May Tonight's the Night was going out at 4641kbps but Robin Hood on the same
day went out at 3385kbps and on 18 April it even went out at 2898kbps
whereas Primeval on ITV went out at 2828kbps on the same day.
Is this the BBC's new way of forcing people to downgrade to DOG SHIT
infested BBC HD, by degrading the quality of SD so that the SD quality HD
(as other posters here have reported in other threads) looks better?
And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the pictures
were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem, it's the BBC's
transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than continental satellite
and almost all of that is sourced from VHS quality U-Matic. Is this what the
BBC wants to do?
Why have the BBC reduced the bandwidth of BBC1 from 4500kbps to barely over
3000kbps?
I hope the House of Commons freezes, or betters still reduces the BBC
licence fee because that's what they deserve after having done this.

Is there an echo in here?

[Brian Gaff]

Who runs the actual bandwidths though? Do they have to pay more for more?
Its the same story on dab as we all know.
I have a nasty sneaking feeling that also, some of the fm feeds to radio are
now from a dab source as they sound just as gritty.
Do they think everyone is deaf?
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: ***@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Post by Agamemnon
On Saturday I recorded the stream of the Eurovision final on BBC1 and the
bit rate was only 3614kbps (file size 5.45GB for 3h 20m), whereas the two
semis on BBC3 were at over 4000kbps (3.85 GB for 2h 5m), and BBC1 is
supposed to be fixed bit-rate at 4500kbps. Well it clearly isn't unless
the bit rate was fixed as 3614kbps.
The picture quality was complete rubbish. The presenters and performers
were all blurred and the so was the scoreboard which even suffered from
ringing artefacts on the numbers and the colours from all the country's
flags flooded into the white background.
Eurovision Jade's Story which ran before it on the same channel was also
at 3609kbps and Tonight's the Night was at 3877kbps. Have I Got News for
You the night before was 3289kbps, Ashes to Ashes last night was as
3058kbps, whereas for comparison Primeval on ITV on Saturday was at
2888kbps.
The bitrate on BBC1 has gone completly down the toilet. Two weeks ago on 2
May Tonight's the Night was going out at 4641kbps but Robin Hood on the
same day went out at 3385kbps and on 18 April it even went out at 2898kbps
whereas Primeval on ITV went out at 2828kbps on the same day.
Is this the BBC's new way of forcing people to downgrade to DOG SHIT
infested BBC HD, by degrading the quality of SD so that the SD quality HD
(as other posters here have reported in other threads) looks better?
And there was I thinking that my CRT TV was wearing out because the
pictures were all becoming blurred. It's not my TV that's the problem,
it's the BBC's transmissions. 2898kbps isn't barley any better than
continental satellite and almost all of that is sourced from VHS quality
U-Matic. Is this what the BBC wants to do?
Why have the BBC reduced the bandwidth of BBC1 from 4500kbps to barely
over 3000kbps?
I hope the House of Commons freezes, or betters still reduces the BBC
licence fee because that's what they deserve after having done this.

[Mark Carver]

and BBC1 is supposed to be fixed bit-rate at 4500kbps.

It was only ever 4.5 Mb/s FBR in England (excluding London). Now AIUI
it's stat muxed in all DTT nations and regions. The Chelsea Flower Show
looked particularly crap the other night. You're better off using D-Sat
for BBC 1 now.